Outremer

[quote=Hoodlum][quote=Dima]okay, i am haply that this version is fine! i must say, that i also tend to prefer this version. btw, regarding the size propprtions: i checked out France, North America, Brazil and the two GoT maps and they have almost the same proportions as this map, basicly a square. [/quote] BECAUSE THEY ARE BIG MAPS[/quote] Well Hoodum in the map making manual from aeronautic there are no manuals regarding the image size of big/small/middle maps. Basicly the image size and map size are not tied to each other. The width must be 1024 and the high everything between 600 and 900 pixels. And since all these maps I mentioned have a hight slightly above 900 pixls and are being played very often & enjoy high popularity, then it might make sense to question some of the older rules, atleast sometimes and maybe apply them in a more flexible way ;) . I would simply go with the current size and see how well the maps fares among the player base. If its popular, then everything is okay.

Ok then I'll just rewrite the manual. NP. Just so its clear and u dont waste your time.

[b]D12 Map Design Guidelines: Composition & Orientation[/b] To maintain consistency across all D12 maps, every designer must follow these foundational steps before adding artistic detail. Our goal is to maximize the playable area while minimizing unnecessary scrolling. 1. Define the Canvas First Every map starts with its Dimensions. Before drawing geography, ensure you have allocated specific "UI zones" for: Map Title: Clear, legible placement. Minimap: For navigation and strategic overview. Legend/Metadata: Room for territory counts or special rules. 2. Optimize Geography & Orientation We do not use default "North-is-Up" orientations if they create wasted space. Use a Compass Rose to indicate true North, but rotate the landmass to fit the screen efficiently. Rotated Maps: Use rotation to fit long or diagonal landmasses into a horizontal frame (e.g., Italy, Philippines, Gold Coast). The "No-Scroll" Rule: If a map is small or medium-sized, it must fit the viewport. Do not force a scroll where it isn't needed. 3. Scaling for Territory Density Small Maps: Keep them compact. Do not artificially inflate the dimensions; figure out the most efficient layout for the territory count. Large Maps: Scrolling is only allowable for "Big" maps with a high volume of territories where a single-screen view would compromise legibility. [spoiler=EXAMPLE][img]https://i.imgur.com/wmupEZy.png[/img] [i]Still BIG, but not unnecessarily MASSIVE for a small amount of territories [/i] [/spoiler]

No wait, sorry Hood, I think we should respect the [u]north orientation[/u] convention as much as possible, as we have always done. It was mandatory during Vexer's times, aeronautic had to ask permission to rotate Italy 15 degrees, you split New Zealand into 2 pieces in order to preserve the north orientation, and I think it was an excellent idea in the end. Moreover we have got plenty of tall maps with a relative small number of territories. I could mention: [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/64.large.jpg]Westeros & Essos[/url] 56T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/9.large.jpg]Saturn[/url] 30T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/9.large.jpg]Korea-Japan[/url] 52T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/33.large.jpg]Europe[/url] 48T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/15.large.jpg]Caribbean Dual[/url] 46T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/42.large.jpg]Brazil[/url] 39T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/79.large.jpg]Artic Circle[/url] 34T, [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/79.large.jpg]Alkebulan Africa[/url] 52T, even Brethren Coast, Australasia and Middle East... All of them are maps that I'd have hated long time ago because I couldn't see the whole playing-area on my screen, but today my screen has a much higher definition and I have no problem to visualize tall maps. In fact nobody complains about that anymore, or at least not much as it was once. Plus today we use smartphones (and even tablets I guess) that can be oriented vertically and horizontally accordingly to the need. Okay, it's still better not to make maps extremely tall, but this one for me had just some too-large writings taking room on the top and the bottom, last Dima's version looks well fixed to me. Another solution for tall maps -- without tilting the map 90 degrees -- is to add some room or drawings on the two sides. Like [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/12.large.jpg]Great Britain & Ireland[/url] and [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/maps/106.large.jpg]Germany[/url] for example.

splitting NZ into 2 pieces wasn't my choice :) you think i want it looking like that? just another messed up nz map. I'd love for it to be a vertical map but i couldn't get away with it at the time due to our d12 map making rules. it deserves to be a vertical map more because it is called North Island and South Island lol. but NZ doesn't matter that much ;)

Whatever change of the map format, we will have to pause all games (just pause not end), then upload the new image and move all the circles, finally un-pause all the games. However pausing Fog games is disruptive, we should add time there and ask people not to play until the update is done.

Beta is for testing gameplay, not for final production. The scale issue was mentioned from day one, and since Beta games often don't finish, they really shouldn't be used in tournaments yet. I’m bringing the size concern up again now so we can actually proceed with development once the gameplay is sorted. There's no rush, but we have to get the basics right.

[quote=Hoodlum]Beta is for testing gameplay, not for final production. The scale issue was mentioned from day one, and since Beta games often don't finish, they really shouldn't be used in tournaments yet. I’m bringing the size concern up again now so we can actually proceed with development once the gameplay is sorted. There's no rush, but we have to get the basics right. [/quote] Hmmm, i dont understand it, I changed the size as much as I could everytime I was asked to do so. Its true that the current hight is a bit bigger than the supposed max. of 900 pixels, but so are some other maps. And in the aeronautics manual, that was done before I started with this map, there were no division between large maps and small maps regarding their size, the maps were just supposed to be between 600 and 900 pixels high, regardless of their big or small amount of territories. So the rule regarding the different size handling of large and small maps is somehow new, atleast I was not familiar with these differentiations. I personally never had any problems with playing on other maps, no matter what proportions they had, whether they were over 900 pixels high or beneath 900 pixels high. I think i didnt even pay attention to this, cuz everything was fine. I am not sure, if its necessary to make much much turmoil about this issue in this case, if the map is almost finished and is playable. Anyway, what do other two map makers think? Regarding using beta maps in the tournaments: Okay, i will cease doing this. Regarding the NZ map: Well, i just looked at it and for me it seems not a big deal to change it into vertical form, similarly to Italy. Both countries have almost identical form, and if it was possible to draw Italy in one piece, then it should work with NZ for sure. I will get home and try to re-arrange it in a way that it fits the max. 900 pixel criteria and is not divided into two halves; i am pretty confidend it will work lol. So i dunno what way of thinking preceeded the NZ map making process, but i am sure, we could solve this problem; we could make it in a way, you like it Hoodlum, basicly two islands are put in their correct positions to each other, instead of being divided. I think it would make it even more authentic. Anyway, i ll get home and take a look.

u can keep not understanding it, but it's pretty basic. i even gave u an example to clarify. the current map is way to big for such a small amount of territories. map dimensions are pretty much the first thing you look at when first designing a map for d12. yeah, you started off making big maps, and that's probably where you are confused. but no problem. i am here to save you time with this map, now that you know the direction. gl. if nz is to be reworked i'd rather do it, it is the reason i got into map making seeing NZ butchered on many game sites, heck, just on many maps in general lol. i didn't do the graphics on the NZ map, (aeronautic did), as I wasn't skilled enough at the time, so I would be keen to do it. I've had the opportunity to put NZ on a handful of our D12 maps, so it doesn't bother me that much that NZ is displayed as it is being respectful to the rules we have about unnecessary scrolling, i'd keep NZ layout the same, as it works.

[quote=Hoodlum]u can keep not understanding it, but it's pretty basic. i even gave u an example to clarify. the current map is way to big for such a small amount of territories. map dimensions are pretty much the first thing you look at when first designing a map for d12. yeah, you started off making big maps, and that's probably where you are confused. but no problem. i am here to save you time with this map, now that you know the direction. gl. [/quote] You did not address my arguments in post #53. There are currently no rules that require different treatment of small and large maps in terms of image size. The map-making manual by Aeronautic specifies a width of 1024 pixels and a height somewhere between 600–900 pixels, if I recall correctly. There is no mention that large maps should be treated differently from small maps, nor is there any rule stating that maps with many or few territories should be handled differently with regard to image size. You can, of course, introduce such a new requirement, but it should not be applied retroactively—neither to maps that are currently in development nor to past maps. If maps larger than 900 pixels in height were uploaded and accepted in the past—despite there being no additional rules regarding the relationship between territory count and image size—why is there suddenly a change in approach with this map, which is already almost finished? I am fine with this being a new rule going forward, but could it not be applied only to future maps? I am also okay with very large projects like the very large Germany map or the Khwarezm Empire map being canceled due to incorrect height-to-width proportions. However, this particular map is nearly finished, and I have already implemented all the proposed changes so far. I find your argumentation somewhat flawed. Could you please address the points above more directly, so that your reasoning becomes clearer and the apparent contradictions in your arguments are resolved? Lastly I am not resposible for the way NZ is being displayed here or on other maps and I would have zero problems with you doing it the way you like, even if the result would go against a rule or two (- i prefer to value things holistically). The treatment you recieved in the past by others is deffinetly not my fault and in case you are (unconsciously) making my map development stall due to past ills, you must know its deffinetly not fair towards me and I do not deserve this kind of a treatment.

OMG it's my fault! I had not to mention the New Zealand map, let it fall please, it was just an example! I noticed too that this map was very tall, but my main focus was about game-play and when I said "it plays well" I was referring to that, not to the map proportions: a little misunderstanding there. This map game-play is intriguing for me and I hope the map will stay. As for the height of the image I said "we'll hear from people what they say"... Now @@Dima look, two other staff are also basically saying this map is tall, we should reduce somehow the height. Hoodlum mentioned the rules from the DXII Guide suggesting a height between 600 and 900 pixels. [i]As a general rule I think it's a good idea to follow the rules![/i]. The good news however is that right now (thanks also to Virtuosity comments) the last version is only 166 pixel off rules! Will we do a war for 150 or so pixels? As we are almost there, let's just get there! I think you can do it Dima. In other words we have an established format for maps and we try (as much as we can) to respect that format. Exceptions can be made, of course, and were made in some cases, but just because we couldn't find a better solution for those maps. In this case I do not understand why this map was made so tall (same for the Khwarezm Empire). The possibility of making exceptions is not related to the map popularity. Some maps were extremely popular (for ex. Caribbean) but they were completely re-made because the graphics wasn't good enough for the D12 standards. Nobody said "No, this map is popular, so we keep it as it is". The same approach is worth for the map proportions (width and height). So my proposal now is that this map may be simply expanded to West and East and get something around 850 px's high. Scaling it a little bit we will lose some details, the text will be a little smaller, but at least we are in the correct range format and period. [spoiler=Example][img]https://i.ibb.co/wZ4204n3/example.jpg[/img] Just an idea. You can cut the height even more by moving title, subtitle and special bonuses over the ocean.[/spoiler] What do you all think, please? (I'm addressing the question to everyone at this point: admins, cartographers and the D12 community)

@@Dima, I’ve restructured the [b]Map Making Guidelines[/b] to consolidate a decade of site history into a single, clear resource. This update includes several key additions: [list] [li][b]Technical Addendum:[/b] Clarifying scale and dimensions (The "Canvas-First" protocol).[/li] [li][b]Territory Counts:[/b] Integrated the suggested territory benchmarks proposed by Bishop.[/li] [li][b]Copyright Policy:[/b] Added the official permissions process as established by Cireon.[/li] [li][b]Submission Checklist:[/b] A simple tool to ensure a map is technically ready before it's coded.[/li] [/list] The original guidelines can still be downloaded at the bottom of that page if you’d like to compare; the core principles remain the same. You now have all the tools necessary (Cartography access) to bring your maps into compliance. My only interest is ensuring every map on D12 meets our site standards. I ask that you respect these guidelines and avoid seeking exceptions—there is plenty of time for a map to develop, even if you feel it’s nearly finished. To put things into perspective: being an Admin and the main active cartographer doesn't mean all of my submissions make it onto the site. My Roman Empire map—which you mentioned you liked—took years to develop. I’ve had many maps I felt were "done" that were ultimately rejected or required massive changes because it isn't solely my decision; I also have to meet the demands and standards of the cartography team. We are here to help you succeed, but the basics—like scale and dimensions—are not up for debate. Use the checklist, follow the guide, and let's get the work done the right way. [spoiler][quote=aeronautic][size=14][b]D12 Official Map Making Guidelines[/b][/size] [i]Technical Standards & Community Expectations[/i] [hr] Dominating 12 relies on the community for new maps. Any player may submit a map provided it meets our quality and technical standards. [hr] [b][size=14][color=red]1. The "Canvas-First" Protocol (Technical Addendum)[/color][/size][/b] Before any geography is drawn, the map dimensions must be set. [list] [li][b]UI Zones:[/b] You must allocate clear, non-congested space for the [b]Map Title[/b], [b]Minimap[/b], and [b]Legend[/b].[/li] [li][b]No-Scroll Standard:[/b] Maps must maximize the viewport. Rotate landmasses (e.g., Italy, Philippines, Gold Coast) to fit a horizontal screen. Use a [b]Compass Rose[/b] to indicate North.[/li] [li][b]Scaling:[/b] Scrolling is an exception reserved [u]exclusively[/u] for Large-Scale maps with high territory counts. Small/Medium maps must fit the screen without scrolling.[/li] [/list] [b][size=14]2. Territory Counts & Strategy[/size][/b] [list] [li][b]Optimal Counts:[/b] Aim for these totals for balanced play: [i]30, 32, 33, 35, 40, 42, 44, 52, 56, 65, 66, 81, 104, 117, 128, 144.[/i][/li] [li][b][color=red]Forbidden Counts:[/color][/b] Maps with [b]36-38[/b] or [b]45-51[/b] territories are prohibited due to troop distribution disadvantages in 3-player games.[/li] [li][b]Defensibility:[/b] Territories should generally have 3 borders to defend. Maps with too many indefensible regions will be rejected.[/li] [li][b]Special Rules:[/b] Limit special gameplay to one type (e.g., ports OR adjacent bonuses).[/li] [/list] [b][size=14]3. Copyright Policy[/size][/b] Maps based on fiction (movies, games, books) are protected by law. [list] [li][b]Requirement:[/b] You must have explicit permission from the copyright holder or proof of "passivity" (no response after multiple attempts).[/li] [li][b]Permission:[/b] If granted, provide the correspondence to a staff member. If denied, you must use a "roughly similar" original creation instead.[/li] [/list] [spoiler=Sample Permission Letter] Dear Mrs/Mr, For the website Dominating 12 (www.dominating12.com) we would like to design a map based on {...}. As {...} is protected by copyright, we would like to ask permission to use the names and geographical features from {...} to create a map for our community. Kind regards, {...} [/spoiler] [b][size=14]4. Expectations & Process[/size][/b] [list] [li][b]Suggestions:[/b] Concepts [i]must[/i] first be posted in the [url=https://dominating12.com/forums/3/map-creation/93/map-suggestions]Map Suggestions[/url] thread.[/li] [li][b]Revisions:[/b] If a site Cartographer requests a change for standard compliance, it is [b][color=red]mandatory[/color][/b].[/li] [li][b]Style:[/b] Maps must fit the site’s dark aesthetic. Extremely light or "cheesy" themes will be rejected.[/li] [/list] [b][size=14]5. Graphical Requirements[/size][/b] [list] [li][b]Format/Size:[/b] JPEG (~300kb). Standard width: 1024px. HD width: 1366px (less preferred).[/li] [li][b]Layers:[/b] Required for: Outline, Color, Shading, Texture, Connections, Text, Title, Minimap, and Credits.[/li] [li][b]Anti-aliasing:[/b] Required for smooth edges. Jagged or blurry lines are not acceptable.[/li] [/list] [b][size=14][color=red]6. Beta Status & Tournament Integrity[/color][/size][/b] [list] [li][b]Purpose:[/b] Beta is for testing gameplay flow and technical stability.[/li] [li][b]Tournaments:[/b] [b][color=red]Do not use Beta maps in official tournaments.[/color][/b] Since Beta maps are subject to scale changes or game termination, they are unsuitable for competitive ranking until finalized.[/li] [/list] [b][size=14]7. Coding, Bonuses, & Capitals[/size][/b] [list] [li][b]Bonus Formula:[/b] [i]Territories / 3 + Borders to Defend / 2.5[/i].[/li] [url=https://dominating12.com/tools]Calculator[/url] [li][b]Capitals:[/b] Spaced equally apart, one per region, in territories with 3+ connections. Use site templates for submission.[/li] [/list] [b][size=14]Resources[/size][/b] [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/territories/normal-small.png]Small Circles[/url] | [url=https://dominating12.com/assets/img/territories/normal-large.png]Large Circles[/url] [hr] [b][size=12]CARTOGRAPHER COPYRIGHT AGREEMENT[/size][/b] The author retains copyright but grants Dominating 12 permission to use the image free of charge. D12 staff may make alterations to the submitted map for gameplay stability, graphical accuracy, or site compatibility. [hr] [i][b]Notice on Guideline Continuity:[/b] These guidelines have been updated to consolidate over a decade of site history into a single, character-efficient resource. The core principles established by our founding cartographers remain the same; these edits serve only to clarify technical standards for modern display resolutions and ensure consistent gameplay across all new submissions.[/i] [url=https://mapconquest.com/document/cartography.rtf]Original Guidelines[/url] [b][size=14]D12 Map Maker’s Final Checklist[/size][/b] [i]Before submitting your final JPEG for coding, ensure your project meets the following requirements:[/i] [list] [li][b][ ] Canvas First:[/b] Does the map have clear, dedicated space for the Title, Minimap, and Legend? (Rule #1)[/li] [li][b][ ] Viewport Optimization:[/b] Is the landmass rotated to maximize the screen? Does the map fit without unnecessary scrolling? (Rule #1)[/li] [li][b][ ] Balanced Territory Count:[/b] Is your total territory count in the "Optimal" range and outside the "Forbidden" ranges (36-38, 45-51)? (Rule #2)[/li] [li][b][ ] Strategy Check:[/b] Do most territories have 3 or fewer borders to defend? (Rule #2)[/li] [li][b][ ] Legal Clearance:[/b] If based on fiction/games, do you have explicit permission or proof of passivity from the owner? (Rule #3)[/li] [li][b][ ] Dark Aesthetic:[/b] Does the color scheme fit the site’s dark style (avoiding neon/bright/white backgrounds)? (Rule #4)[/li] [li][b][ ] Technical Quality:[/b] Is the image a JPEG (~300kb)? Is the text legible with an outline/stroke? Is anti-aliasing applied to jagged edges? (Rule #5)[/li] [li][b][ ] Minimap Requirement:[/b] Does your minimap clearly show region names and bonuses? (Rule #6)[/li] [li][b][ ] Proper Capitals:[/b] Are your 2-4 and 5-8 player capitals spaced according to the site templates? (Rule #7)[/li] [/list] [i][b]Note:[/b] If you cannot check off every item above, your map will likely be sent back for further revisions before it can be entered into the system.[/i] [/quote] [/spoiler]

[spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/EBt6wsL.jpeg [/img] [/spoiler]

Looks good! :thumbs: The game-play has changed a little bit in the South, but not much.

[quote=The_Bishop]Looks good! :thumbs: The game-play has changed a little bit in the South, but not much.[/quote] Ah yes, i mistakenly Put the Bonus at 2 for fatimid caliphate, it supposed to be 3. Suez, Sinai and cairo are now connected aswell.